[linux-dvb] Cross-posting linux-media, linux-dvb etc

BOUWSMA Barry freebeer.bouwsma at gmail.com
Sat Jan 17 10:36:13 CET 2009


On Sat, 17 Jan 2009, Mike Isely wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Jan 2009, user.vdr wrote:
> > I think it's a lame idea to clump all media related stuff into one
> > mailing list from separate ml's because 1) it's too general of a topic
> > and 2) those ml's already had a lot of activity on their own.  The
> > idea of sifting through tons of posts of no interest is quite a hassle
> > to say the least.  This "solution" just doesn't seem very well thought
> > out imo but it is what it is I guess.

> That's still better than sifting through MULTIPLE COPIES of the same 
> post from different lists, which frequently is the case right now.

Sounds like some opinions which won't easily change, as well
as different experiences, that I'll try to explain...

First, given the strong opinions people have had in the past
about getting a direct reply as well as a list copy, I think
it's worth a mention that it appears that both g00gle-mail
and yah00! use the Message-ID as the key to a database with
the result that duplicates are suppressed, in spite of the
different header contents.  This was at first very unnerving
when I didn't get two yah00! copies of mail where I was a
direct recipient, which was quite different from what I had
grown used to years ago, when I was running my own simple mail 
server.

This went from unnerving to annoying when I realized that
g00gle appeared to use the Message-ID as key to a database
not just covering the Inbox, but my entire mail, such that
my own gmail sent-mail copy existing meant that it wouldn't
ever appear in my inbox.

Now I could be misunderstanding how these large providers
do things internally, but in effect, duplicates there are
suppressed.  Maybe this is configurable, as part of their
filtering, but I wouldn't know as my browser of choice was
unable to access their configuration, and actually, was
completely unable to access gmail last I tried.

That should mean that while I include user.vdr with a cc:,
that account should by default see this only once, whether
or not it's subscribed to -media as well as -dvb.  Just as
a demonstration.  Whereas Mike, you see this twice, as I
stripped your personal addresses since this isn't important
enough for you to see even once, let alone four times, and
your provider apparently doesn't do the merging my M-ID.

And yes, I am one of those who *does* wish to receive a
duplicate copy of a message sent directly to me as well as
to a list, if it's important enough not to get lost in the
noise or overlooked.  Others disagree, and I respect that.
Particularly when I go back to casual 'net access, and have
to sift through hundreds of messages at a time, once a week,
once a month, once every eight months...


Up until recently, I *did* read all linux-dvb messages, and
resisted the temptation to reply to people posting about
analogue devices by saying v4linux is over there ==>
due to the -dvb giving a clue in the list name.  While you
won't be annoyed by duplicates, I'm going to be missing
some posts I would have read on -dvb.  Not that that's a
bad thing, I'm sure most will agree, particularly anyone
I've misled by trying to ``help''.


Understand that my objection is not to the move to vger,
which is a good thing, but to the merger of the two lists
of different topics and some non-overlapping end-users
who may be overwhelmed by the doubling of message volume.


Here's some flamebait, and I'll probably regret this, but
hey, I only get one chance to live -- why not merge in the
em28xx mailing list from mcentral.de as well?  That covers
hybrid devices, both analogue and DVB-like, and would save
me as a non-subscriber from having to crosspost, and would
save subscribers there and to -dvb or -media from seeing
those posts multiple times, and, um, no, I'm not serious,
but separate lists of overlapping interests do exist, and
crossposting/multiple copies do exist, and at least some
services out there are able to minimise the inconvenience
of duplicate copies...

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to crosspost to mcentral.
Haven't started a good flamewar since the last time I woke
up...


barry bouwsma
won't someone please think of the newbies...



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