[vdr] Re: Reference RC (was DXR3 support patch for vdr-1.1.5)

[Klaus Schmidinger <Klaus.Schmidinger@cadsoft.de>]

Thomas Jagoditsch wrote:
> 
> > > Maybe we should look for a "reference" Remote Control (or a set of
> > > reference keys which is enough .. not too much and not too little)
> > > and use this rc for developing.
> >
> > I believe I already did that when I defined the original set of keys
> > for VDR. The Concept is based on the presence of cursor movement keys
> 
> i think you had primary your own remote in mind (and thats ok by me),
> but its not to common.

At the time I initially coded this I didn't even have my current RC yet.
I simply tried to make a menu structure that would work with the smallest
number of keys and would follow the path that apparently seems to be used
by many commercial STBs: a cursor cross (up/down/left/right) to navigate,
Ok/Menu/Back to go through menus and four color keys for various functions.

> i, OTOH, use vdr with the third remote now - and only the last one
> now has color keys. the other ones were the learnable system-remotes
> of my av-receiver and none of them had color keys.
> one receiver was a sony and the other a denon, so in my experience it
> looks like color-keys are not common to system-remotes but to sat-
> remotes and tv-remotes.

One of the major ideas of the VDR menu system is based on the presence of
the four color keys. These are used very flexible for various functions,
which are dynamically indicated in the bottom line of the menu. If you wanted
to have specific keys for all these functions (and all the possible functions that
may yet come) you would need an ever increasing number of keys on your RC.
With just the four color keys doing things is pretty easy and straightforward.
Besides, look at any of the commercial "Personal Video Recorder" OSDs - they
all use color keys.

> one of the nice thing with the system-remotes is the possible control
> of all your equipment - but it was too hard to remember the vdr-keys
> (especially with the remote of my denon receiver) so i purchased a
> (rather expensive) learnable remote with color keys.
> 
> so i can understand why someone would like to have a more generic way
> to sort out functions-to-key mappings - i wished it too that time.
> 
> as some others said - nobody _has_ to do his own mappings - the
> defaults would work anyway. but you _can_ do it.
> 
> > otherwise. It cannot be that the various plugins all define their own
> > sets of keys and force users to have either several different RCs, or
> > one large piece of equipment that has so many keys that nobody can
> > moemorize all their meanings.
> 
> i agree with that - standardize as long as it is possible.
> dvd is a special case here. you got to have navigation keys (AFAIK
> you need all 8 directions on some dvds - ?!?) plus the common control-
> keys (play, pause, etc ...). number-keys are IMHO optional.
> 
> lets face it, sometimes ist hard to make a sound mapping, especially
> if you are bound to the restrictions of someone who has a totally
> different remote ...
> 
> > Please, let's keep things simple!
> 
> there is nothing easier than two linked lists.

Oh yes, there is: no lists at all ;-)

> there is a good reason why termcap and the applications on top of it
> used that architecture long times ago - the problem was the same
> these days with ascii-terminals.
> 
> wbr.tja...
> 
> ps:
> i really really love vdr and its a daily used thing to me - tv is not
> the same as before.
> despite "zeit im bild" i am used to "choose" now. most of the time i
> watch recordings (thanks to vdradmin, too) and i got no more "dull-
> zapping-evenings".
> in recent discussions here i sometimes get the feeling that you feel
> uncomfortable with critics on "your" code.

You are probably referring to the thread Andreas Schultz started with
his patch for VDR verion 1.1.5. I believe I made it clear that what bothered
me was not the fact that he pointed out that cDevice isn't abstract
enough yet (I know that and will change it). What really bothered me was
him calling the code a "mess". But that discussion is over and I don't want to
start it again.

> OTOH some ppl get
> frustrated with your response to changes that are minor (to them
> anyway *G*).

Changing the whole menu and key handling structure is not a "minor" change.

> i hope this issue will be resolved at the time the plugin-system is
> workin.
> critics (mine and others) doesnt mean "vdr is not good" but "look
> what vdr could be if ...".

I have nothing against criticism. However, there are some areas where I
just don't see the benefits of changing things. The current menu and key
handling system is IMHO simple and straightforward, and I'd really like
to keep it that way. If somebody wants to use VDR with a remote control
that doesn't have color keys, I'm afraid I can't help him. The basic
idea behind the VDR menu system relies on color keys, and assigning each and
every function (that can easily and flexibly be handled with color keys)
to a specific key would only end up in requiring a lot more keys than just
the four color keys.

As I stated earlier, I will add several additional keys, like Play/Pause/Stop etc.,
but these will only be "additional", meaning that using VDR (or a plugin, for that
matter) must still be possible if there are only the basic keys available.

Klaus
-- 
_______________________________________________________________

Klaus Schmidinger                       Phone: +49-8635-6989-10
CadSoft Computer GmbH                   Fax:   +49-8635-6989-40
Hofmark 2                               Email:   kls@cadsoft.de
D-84568 Pleiskirchen, Germany           URL:     www.cadsoft.de
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