[linux-dvb] lifeview pci trio (saa7134) not working through diseqc anymore

hermann pitton hermann-pitton at arcor.de
Sat Dec 13 02:04:50 CET 2008


just to avoid some new myth :)

Am Freitag, den 12.12.2008, 14:22 +0100 schrieb Jordi Moles Blanco:
> wow, how many questions in just one mail, hahaha. i'll try to answer 
> everything as well as i can.
> En/na BOUWSMA Barry ha escrit:
> > On Fri, 12 Dec 2008, Jordi Molse wrote:
> >
> >   
> >> However, i haven't been able to get diseqc working and i don't think i
> >> will....
> >>     
> >
> > It is too early to give up now!!1!  At least, I shall not
> > give up until the sun melts away enough of the snow, so that
> > I can go out and get more beer, though the melted snow
> > will probably freeze into slick ice, and I'll probably
> > end up hurting more than last time, this time with broken
> > glass embedded into my body...  A direct infusion of that
> > evil alcohol into by bloodstream without the middleman of
> > passing the lips, gums, tongue, nose -- heck, why bother
> > searching to find excellent-tasting beer when I won't notice
> > and appreciate the difference anyway...
> >
> >   
> hahaha, and they say I'M crazy.
> >   
> >> i used to have this card running in a dual boot with windows xp, where
> >> everything worked like a charm, and another one where i kept installing linux
> >> distros without any luck until "kubuntu hardy" came out. At that point, as the
> >> card with diseqc worked "out of the box", i decided to erase all data and move
> >>     
> >
> > One card, worked in two boxes; the first box a 'doze box,
> > the second box Kubuntu Hardy...  (unsupported before then)
> >
> >
> >   
> i just realised it couldn't be worse explained... hahaha. The thing 
> is... i used to have one computer with the lifeview card. In this 
> computer i had dual boot. In the first partition always windows, where 
> the card would work through diseqc. On the second partition i would keep 
> installing different linux distros until i found that "kubuntu hardy" 
> worked.
> After that i erased all data and installed only kubuntu hardy on my 
> computer.
> >> then i upgraded the system and also moved the tower from its place to next to
> >> the tv (to be a medicenter computer :) ). Then i couldn't view the channels
> >> anymore. I tried to retune with no luck... I check all the cables, just in
> >> case one of them was in bad shape. I even replaced the T connectors, just in
> >>     
> >
> > System `upgraded' and stopped DiSEqC working; but also,
> > system moved.  No success since then.
> >
> > Question:
> >
> > When you moved the system, did you have to add new cable?
> > If so, how long was the length of cable from your machine
> > to the DiSEqC switch before you moved it, and how long is
> > this cable now, or is it the same length and same cable?
> >
> > Other question, what do you mean by a `T connector'?
> > For satellite, I am familiar with the `F' connector, and
> > I am also familiar with other types of `T' connector,
> > but they should have no place in a satellite system...
> >
> >
> >
> >   
> So... after installing everything and getting it to work properly 
> through diseqc, i upgraded the whole system to the latest packages and 
> also moved the tower from my room to the another room. I didn't try to 
> view any channel after upgrading and before moving the computer, and 
> that's why i didn't know if the upgrade had broken the system or i had 
> broken the card by moving the tower from room to room... or may be had i 
> used bad cables in the new place?
> Then i turned on the tv and realised it was not working anymore. Then i 
> went crazy and tried every possible thing until i came here to post for 
> the first time.
> >> so... is it possible that somehow i've broken the card someone? the truth is
> >>     
> >
> > Not too likely -- DiSEqC switching is basically the same
> > as a modulated version of the 22kHz tone which is used to
> > switch between low (below 11700) and high (above 11700)
> > frequencies by the LNB.
> >
> > However, I have had experience with several different
> > 2/1 and 4/1 DiSEqC switches at the end of long cable
> > runs, which could not be properly switched by some DVB-S
> > cards, but could -- or could not be switched by a consumer
> > satellite receiver, but which worked flawlessly when located
> > a few metres from the receiver, instead of nearly 100m away.
> > The cable length attenuated or otherwise corrupted the
> > DiSEqC bursts from some devices so that they failed to work.
> >
> >
> >   
> I don't think distance is the problem, as now there are less meters from 
> the dishes to my box.
> Actually, it's the same 2 cables than before. I used to have 2 long 
> cables which went from the dishes to a room (going through the room the 
> computer is now). It used to be like 8-9 meters long.
> Right now, the box is in this other room, closer to the dishes. I'm 
> still using the same cables, but shorter, i cut 2-3 meters from each one 
> as i don't need those meters anymore.
> Obviuosly, i had to set the "F connectors again" (not T connectors, 
> hehe) and... did i do it the right way? I don't know. I would think 
> so... but that's why i asked you if there's a chance i've broken the 
> card but mounting the F connectors the wrong way and causing the 
> receiver to malfunction.
> >> that what used to work in windows... doesn't work anymore... this evening i
> >> went back to windows just to check if the card, the diseqc and everything was
> >> fine... and i had so many problems to get the satellite working as before. i
> >> used to use progdvb, which supported diseqc for my card and now it just can't
> >> tune through diseqc, none of the two satellites. other software does know how
> >> to get through diseqc, but only switch 1.
> >>     
> >
> > So, the same setup, apart from being moved, now no longer
> > works the same as it used to work with 'doze, and 'doze
> > either no longer works at all, or fails to switch DiSEqC?
> >
> > Note that a typical DiSEqC switch will simply pass along
> > its 1/2 or 1/4 or 1/8 or 1/whatever input, when it does
> > not receive the switching signal to select 2/2 or whatever.
> >
> >
> >
> >   
> Again, that was made me thing that i had broken something in my card or 
> my diseqc switch, as i can tune from both separately but not together 
> through diseqc.
> It doesn't make much sense to me that the card is half-broken.... i 
> mean... i can tune any satellite but not through diseqc.... but i asked 
> because i'm no a hardware expert at all.
> >> i've checked cables and i don't think it's an issue from the diseq thing,
> >> cause i've got two and both give the same problem.
> >>     
> >
> > Two?  Two what -- DiSEqC switches, two cables to switches?
> >
> > Do you have a normal consumer satellite receiver, as well
> > as your different computer boxes?
> >   
> two diseqc switch to play with. lifeview is not working with any of them.
> i've got an engel tdt 5300 receiver, but diseqc never worked there.  I 
> bought it when i had only one dish. When then i set the second one, i 
> also fought to get diseqc working and i ended up trying the lifeview in 
> my computer, which worked in windows. I though that it might  be a 
> problem with engel's tunner, so i just let it go.
> i haven't tried now to make it work in the engel receiver... but if back 
> then didn't use to work....
> >
> > I'm going to guess based on where I think you are located,
> > that you have something like the following -- please correct
> > me where I ass-u-me wrong, and add any additional info that
> > is missing from this...
> >
> > Dish+LNB pointed at 28E, large enough to receive BBC/ITV/etc
> > Dish+LNB pointed at 19E (or offset mounted on 28E dish)
> > DiSEqC switch(es) located near dishes -- or near your tuner
> > so you can connect directly from each LNB as a test?
> > Single cable run from switch to computer, or two cable runs
> > from two switches?
> >
> > LNB19E--
> >         \               long cable run
> >          2/1 DiSEqC----------------------------Computer
> >         /
> > LNB28E--
> >   
> i've got 2 80cm satellite dishes, one for Astra 28.2E and the other one 
> for Astra 19.2E.
> Then, from each dish i've got like 2-3 meters cable to where the 
> computer is.
> Then, next to the computer "the two become one", hehe, through the 
> diseqc switch.
>  From diseqc i've got a cable, like 30cm long to the computer
> The diseqc switch is 2.0, like this one:
> http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Products/DiSEqC/DS21-DISEQC-SWITCH.jpg
> > You also mention DVB-T/radio from this card; if you could
> > mention how that affects the above, if at all (it should
> > not, but I never know for sure)
> >   
> I don't think it affects in any way. The card has 3 different chips, or 
> so i think: one for radio, one for digital tv (terrestrial) and one for 
> satellite tv. In windows you install 3 different drivers. Actually, 
> windows see the card as 3 different cards, and you can "tune" the three 
> chips at the same time. for example, you can view satellite while 
> recording digital tv, which is great :)

The latter is not true, you can`t view/record DVB-S and DVB-T at once.
That would need a second saa7131 PCI bridge you don't have.

It is one tda8275a hybrid tuner, which in this case is only used for
radio and analog TV, a second tda8275a hybrid tuner, which is only used
for DVB-T on this card with tda10046 channel decoder and a single
tda826x tuner for DVB-S with tda10086 channel decoder and isl6421 ...

> In Linux this doesn't happen. Linux sees the card "as one", and you have 
> to keep  doing
> modprobe saa7134 use_frontend=0... =1..=2 to get one chip or another to 
> work.  Although it would be great to have all of them working at the 
> same time.. it's not a problem for me, as i actually never used this 
> feature in windows.
> > Also, if you have any spares (a pile of DiSEqC switches,
> > other DVB-S capable cards, etc), it would be handy for me
> > to know -- in the case of my 4/1 switches located more
> > than 50m from my tuners, it was partially a case of
> > swapping in other switches from my pile of them until
> > finding a working combination, or running an additional
> > several hundred metres of cable to permit me to switch
> > the four positions close to the tuners...
> >
> >
> >   
> i don't think there's any other helpful information to provide.

We need to go through the code in question, investigate Ubuntu
downports, reread datasheets as far as available (!) and my first guess
is your switch worked once with diseqc enabled on the tda10086, at least
for low. On high with permanent tone from the isl6121 also enabled, I
doubt it ever came through.


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