[linux-dvb] auto detection of Flytv duo/hybrid and pci/cardbus confusion

Peter D. peter_s_d at fastmail.com.au
Fri Feb 22 14:03:09 CET 2008

On Monday 18 February 2008, hermann pitton wrote:
> Hi Peter,
> Am Sonntag, den 17.02.2008, 14:28 +1100 schrieb Peter D.:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've finally gotten around to reading the code and trying to get my
> > PCI MSI TV at nywhere A/D card auto detected.
> >
> > First clarification, duo versus hybrid.
> > Are "duo" cards equipped with two independent tuners that can both be
> > used at the same time?
> > Are "hybrid" cards necessarily equipped with digital and analogue
> > tuners? Can a two tuner card be both a duo and a hybrid, if one tuner
> > is digital the other is analogue and they can both be used at the same
> > time?
> for that all I give some examples further below.
> > Second clarification, PCI versus cardbus.
> > They don't look anything like each other, but can they be logically
> > interchangeable?  If the code for a cardbus tuner happens to work for
> > a PCI tuner is there anything wrong with referring to the PCI tuner
> > as a cardbus device?
> No, we do such and vice versa, but then we add a comment PCI or cardbus
> version usually and another important compatible category is Mini PCI.
> You should also add LR306 as the board type.
> > Looking at <http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/DVB-T_PCMCIA_Cards>
> > there does not appear to be any such thing as a
> > SAA7134_BOARD_FLYDVBT_HYBRID_CARDBUS, despite the entry (number 94)
> > in saa7134.h.  Looking at
> > <http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/DVB-T_PCI_Cards#LifeView>
> > there is a PCI version - but there is no PCI version in saa7134.h.
> They do exist, see bttv-gallery.de, 

OK found it.  

> also Mauro has already a MSI OEM 
> version. They are special for DVB-T, since they switch the mode by a
> gpio pin and have the silent i2c connection to the tuner open and don't
> use the i2c gate of the tda8290 analog demod inside the saa7131e for
> DVB-T tuning.

So the PCI version looks like a slightly dysfunctional cardbus device.  

> > Should
> > "SAA7134_BOARD_FLYDVBT_HYBRID_CARDBUS" be changed to
> No. Just also add "PCI" and "LR306" to your comments.
> The gpio 21 is used for the TV/radio switch. The gpio 22 = 0 in the mask
> is used to switch the tuner AGC to the analog demod.
> On some cardbus version, which have the gpio 27 high, switching it to 0
> turns the fan on, on yours it does nothing, since it is 0 anyway.

I can safely ignore all of that?  

> > It appears that both PCI and cardbus versions of the Flytv duo exist
> > and are listed in saa7134.h - despite slightly inconsistent
> > punctuation; SAA7134_BOARD_FLYDVBTDUO versus
> >
> > Should
> > "SAA7134_BOARD_FLYDVBTDUO" be changed to
> Not related to your device. Subdevice is 0x0306 and you have 0x3306,
> but yes, these are in a different family of devices too.

I just thought that I have found a very minor typo - an extra 
underscore in on of the constants would look more systematic 
to me.  It is not important.  

> > I have an MSI TV at nywhere A/D PCI card that works with the option
> > card=94
> >
> > There appears to not be an entry in struct pci_device_id
> > saa7134_pci_tbl[] in saa7134-cards.c for my card.  There is a reference
> > to a
> > "TV at nywhere DUO" which I guess is a valid entry for a different card.
> Yes it is. Peter Missel bought some and added the entry.
> Duo in LifeView terminology means two separate tuners. One for analog
> TV/FM and one for DVB-T.

LifeView terminology.  The meaning might change might change and 
we have to live with it.  I was hoping that there would be a 
technical definition.  

> On the older Duo versions those two tuners were _not hybrid_ and
> different for analog TV and DVB-T.
> Only the newer Duo variants with tda8275A use two identical such tuners,
> but not in hybrid mode. One is always in analog and the other always in
> digital mode. The older types are out of production and using two still
> allows to have DVB-T and analog TV from the tuners at once.
> This is not possible with one single hybrid tuner. DVB-T and analog
> video from an external input, VCR tuner or something, is possible at
> once, but needs also to use packed video formats for analog during that
> due to limitations of the dma engines with planar formats.
> Then the Trio has even one more tuner for DVB-S, but there is only _one_
> saa713x PCI bridge on all such and only one channel decoder/demodulator
> for each mode. Since the single saa713x chip has only one TS/mpeg/host
> interface, either usable in parallel or serial mode, DVB-S and DVB-T can
> not be used at the same time. (also not an mpeg encoder)
> This is only possible with two saa713x bridges, like the md7134 in the
> CTX925 version has them and when we enable DVB-S support on the second
> bridge hopefully soon. Else functionality is like on the Trio. (BTW, the
> md7134 represents lots of different cards through eeprom detection)
> Next category is the Medion md8800 Quad(ro) with two saa7131e,
> two fully usable tda8275ac1 hybrid (2 analog + 2 DVB-T demods, no FM)
> and two tda8263 DVB-S tuners plus two tda10086 channel decoders plus an
> isl6405 dual LNB controller, where we just have support of the first SAT
> connector now, diseqc for multiswitches is not fully tested yet. There
> is RF loopthrough, in and out, respectively to the other.
> So it should be already possible to view and record from both DVB-S
> devices at once, within that tunable spectrum the active one limits for
> the passive by controlling tone and LNB voltage.
> That loopthrough can be switched off, for example when we have active
> control for the second SAT connector too.
> On the two hybrid tuners the RF feed can also be switched, either to
> loopthrough mode from TV1 antenna connector to both tuners or have input
> of choice from both analog/DVB-T antenna connectors separately.

Thanks for all that, but I only own two cards.  

> > Is the entry;
> >
> >           {
> >                 .vendor       = PCI_VENDOR_ID_PHILIPS,
> >                 .device       = PCI_DEVICE_ID_PHILIPS_SAA7133,
> >                 .subvendor    = 0x4e42,
> >                 .subdevice    = 0x3502,
> >                 .driver_data  = SAA7134_BOARD_FLYDVBT_HYBRID_CARDBUS
> >         },
> >
> > supposed to be;
> >
> >            {
> >                 .vendor       = PCI_VENDOR_ID_PHILIPS,
> >                 .device       = PCI_DEVICE_ID_PHILIPS_SAA7133,
> >                 .subvendor    = 0x4E42,         /* MSI */
> >                 .subdevice    = 0x3306,         /* TV at nywhere Hybrid
> > A/D */ driver_data  = SAA7134_BOARD_FLYDVBT_HYBRID_CARDBUS, },
> >
> > with the subdevice changed, or possibly;
> >
> >            {
> >                 .vendor       = PCI_VENDOR_ID_PHILIPS,
> >                 .device       = PCI_DEVICE_ID_PHILIPS_SAA7133,
> >                 .subvendor    = 0x4E42,         /* MSI */
> >                 .subdevice    = 0x3306,         /* TV at nywhere Hybrid
> > A/D */ driver_data  = SAA7134_BOARD_FLYDVBT_HYBRID,
> >         },
> >
> > with the subdevice and driver_data changed, or should there be an extra
> > entry in the list?
> We have no SAA7134_BOARD_FLYDVBT_HYBRID, this would require already the
> new entry.
> The 4e42:3502 is Mauro's MSI TV @nywhere A/D NB cardbus and likely other
> OEMs too. On the subdevice 0x3306 are the related PCI cards and 0x3307
> are Mini PCI.
> Thought you did not pick up my patch suggestion that time,
> http://www.linuxtv.org/pipermail/linux-dvb/2007-June/018678.html
> because we had no means to make a difference to the Vivanco 21056 and we
> did not get the analog TV mode right on it.

So currently it is impossible to have code which works out of the 
box for both Vivenco and MSI variant?  Could we change that to, 
works out of the box for one and mostly works out of the box for 
the other?  

> For the i2c remote with mdt10p55 (pic 16c505) Eddi had a patch. We
> talked about it and remaining implementation questions, but should be
> usable for you in private if you replace the appearance of
> SAA7134_BOARD_FLYDVB_TRIO with your device or add it accordingly.

I notice that there has been a huge thread about remotes lately.  
After reading that I will come back to this.  

> Since the cardbus and mini pci devices seem not to have a remote so far,
> this could eventually rise the question of a separate entry later on
> Cheers,
> Hermann

Thank you.  

sig goes here...
Peter D.

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