[linux-dvb] [ANNOUNCE] DVB API improvements End-user point of viwer

Markus Rechberger mrechberger at gmail.com
Thu Sep 25 20:36:46 CEST 2008


On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 8:19 PM, Halim Sahin <halim.sahin at t-online.de> wrote:
> Markus,
> Go on and ask the distributors to package your userspace stuff!

this has been gone for a long time already, development went into
another direction form months already.

-Markus

> In fact nobody wants patched applications.
> standardversion shipped with their distros will be prefered.
>
>
>
> On Do, Sep 25, 2008 at 07:44:29 +0200, Markus Rechberger wrote:
>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 6:22 PM, Jörg Knitter <joerg.knitter at gmx.de> wrote:
>> > VDR User wrote:
>> >> 2008/9/25 Sacha <sacha at hemmail.se>:
>> >>
>> >>> Following your discussion from an end-user point of viwer I must say that I
>> >>> wholy agree with this statement:
>> >>>
>> >>> <But 2 years to get a new API is really too much. And during these 2 years,
>> >>> 2
>> >>>
>> >>> <different trees for 2 differents drivers was totally insane. We
>> >>> (applications
>> >>>
>> >>> <devs) are always making our best to bring DVB to users as easily as
>> >>> possible.
>> >>>
>> >>> <And trust me, the multiproto story has complicated users life A LOT. This
>> >>> must NEVER happen again.
>> >>>
>> >>> We, end-users want our stuff working now!
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> I assume you'd also like something that is well-designed, tested, and
>> >> stable rather then slapped together and rushed...  But you know what
>> >> they say about assumptions!
>> >>
>> >
>> > I have to agree with the claim Sacha said.
>> >
>> > I am also "just" an end-user, got a TT3200 with VDR 1.7 working with all
>> > the guides and even wrote an article on it. But it was and is still a
>> > pain - for 2 years now.
>> >
>> > With the introduction of the alternative S2API I was hoping that this
>> > long wait is over after waiting endlessly after the announcement,
>> > multiproto is ready "in a few weeks".
>> >
>> > I have followed the discussion all the two (?) years, and I did just
>> > filter out information about, when the API could be ready, and I was
>> > shocked by all the really bad personal attacks that happened last year
>> > (or the year before) and the splits that results now in four
>> > "repositories" (kernel, multiproto, hvr4000-stuff and mcentral), often
>> > with dozens of patches postet here or at vdrportal that need to be
>> > applied to get a DVB card running.
>> >
>> > And the main reasons for this is not really technical, it seems to me
>> > that they are personal. Open source projects claim to be better than
>> > commercial products, but the things that happened and currently happen
>> > are a good reason to see also the disadvantage of community development.
>> >
>> > I understand all sides:
>> > 1) Manu does not want to to give up his work that he worked for long 2
>> > years.
>> > 2) Markus Rechberger also did a lot of work, but I remember him to be
>> > very insulting to other developers - and quite uncooperative by starting
>> > his own tree. Linux development with MCC as leader might indeed be hard
>> > ;)...
>>
>> just a small side note here, uncooperative because people wanted me to go into
>> a definitely wrong direction back then knowledge was limited by both
>> parties (this
>> is the final truth of it back then).
>> On the other side it was the uncooperativeness and dumping of alot
>> code and issues
>> which have been solved back then already with the help of a lot people.
>> I don't bother anymore I found other ways to have everything be
>> possible to coexist
>> in the kernel, and I actually prefer this coexisting solution now
>> which also provides
>> full support and even has a higher backward compatibility than the
>> things which got
>> pushed through back in time.
>>
>> I'd rather prefer to forget about what happened here because it's a
>> full mess caused
>> by several people with limited knowledge years ago and todays position
>> about it is totally
>> different.
>> You can also find patched enduser applications on mcentral.de which can be used
>> with other devices and provide extra features which are required in
>> order to get devices
>> work properly.
>> There's gqradio patched to support lirc and digital audio
>> automatically, same with vlc and tvtime
>> (the last one also having different video output plugins which allow
>> software rendering if xvideo
>> hardware acceleration isn't available.
>>
>> Still one fact till now is that not all devices which have worked in
>> v4l-dvb-experimental back in time
>> are now supported by v4l-dvb on linuxtv.org and nor all the em28xx
>> based devices are yet in the
>> em28xx-new tree, whereas the second one is the result of heavy
>> refactoring and better manufacturer
>> support for some back then reverse engineered components (-which is
>> good that they got replaced in order
>> to raise the signal strength).
>>
>> Markus
>>
>> > 3) The S2API guys are fed up with all the waiting. Maybe there is indeed
>> > no technical reason behind the decision for S2API as I am also wondering
>> > why there is no answer to THE question. But waiting endlessly really is
>> > no solution...
>> >
>> > The situation I see can not be solved by endless discussion, and even if
>> > MCC would switch to multiproto (again), there discussion would continue
>> > endlessly.
>> >
>> > I just see two options to get a fair decision:
>> > 1) Allowing both APIs exist parallel for a short time and see who is the
>> > winner (as mentioned).
>> > 2) Let the community decide (all interested developers and even
>> > end-users like me and Sacha) with some kind of online vote. Communicate
>> > clearly before which "important" developer favours which API. As none of
>> > the API seems to have a real advantage/disadvantage, users like me will
>> > have to vote for both or decide on personal taste ;)
>> >
>> > I favour option 2) as I also don´t like applications that rely on
>> > certain hardware (if only one API is supported).
>> >
>> > With kind regards
>> >
>> > Joerg Knitter
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > linux-dvb mailing list
>> > linux-dvb at linuxtv.org
>> > http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb
>> >
>>
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> Halim Sahin
> E-Mail:
> halim.sahin (at) t-online.de
>
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