[vdr] Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: cDevice plugin API

[Stephan Schmidt <sschmidt@physik.hu-berlin.de>]

> > Not neccessarily. At least i can think of two scripts which are
> > able to download
> > the needed packages, decompress, patch and compile dependend to the
> > given switches.
> 
> That should be ok too if its more intuitive than the existing ones.
That is what the scripts are for. 

> I've used the bashy script once for my first vdr installation and i will
> never do it again. There are more options too choose from as one can mention
> and at the end of the installation, you will have the same bunch of
> applications and config files as installing it by hand but you dont know
> what to do anymore.
Maybe i do not understand what you mean but i think this is not what the script 
is for. The scripts are no expertsystem for painless installation but for 
simplifying some steps an unexperienced user is not aware of.

> A big advantage of putting it together would be a typical environment for
> every user. Look at this mailinglist. Nobody ever asks of where to store
> channels.conf and how it should look like, but if it comes to mount.sh or
> mplayer.sh, there are so many circumstances that "light" users often are
> very confused by all possibilities.
> It is very clear to me, that in the moment, where things are changing every
> second day (dvb, vdr, mplayer) no one has a real chance to do this, but i
> think, it would be a good conclusion in the near future, to build a "stable"
> release with enhanced _basic_ features.
This is what i see compleatly different. But no problem. I also think that this has 
to be discussed because i think that is one of the biggest misunderstandings between
pro's and beginners.
 
> 
> > > This doesn't necessarily mean that everything has to be integrated into
> > > VDR.
> > This is true. I think that it is, i don't know the english word,
> > "kontraproduktiv"
> > to put everything possible in to VDR.
> 
> Why should that be so if almost erveryone is putting the same plugins into
> vdr. With the same argument, you could strip of watching TV from vdr and
> release it as plugin for users who want a recording only vdr or vice versa.
> Its only a matter of where you draw the borderline.
> And I do sign your meaning, that its not good to put _everything_ into vdr,
> but i think, _most_ users want:
> mp3 playing
> audio-cd playing
> (s)vcd playing
> dvd playing
> mastertime like Timer programming.
And what if you have already a good DVD-Player which also plays (S)VCD and
MP3? :-)
countless demands i think....

> 
> As example: If it comes to divx watching, i think, this is a thing not
> _everybody_ wants to do but i could swear, that many users do or at least
> want to use the 5 examples named above. And why not integrate this into vdr?
Ok, you wrote that you are using Gentoo. Why that? Because it compiles for 
every system a highly optimised system? :-) Do you know how much different
hardware incompatible systems there are possible, how much different kernel and so on? 
Or systems on which you could not compile Gentoo like on my P@233MHz. 

> 
> Or is it a natural law, that linux users must have things complicated to be
> happy?..;-) This week i installed my server new with gentoo now and it was
> easier to build X and KDE and get it running than to get vdr and mencoder to
> do what i wanted they should do.  And thats the wrong way in my opinion. But
> as i said, i see, that for now so many things are changing that we will have
> to live with it for a while and that at least one must be willing (and able)
> to do the integration stuff. I would love to see a stable 1.2.x in the near
> future, where we do it the good old *nix way and than to integrate more
> functions (like mp3) into vdr 1.3.x. But Klaus has other plans for
> sure...:-))

I'm really shure that you have the same thoughts i had as i startet fiddeling
around with vdr and linux. The entry level for beginners is really high. As a
starter you have to understand the linux way to handle things and as that is not 
enough you have also to do the same things hundreds of users have done
before the same way the others have done. This is what the scripts can do for
you if the environment is the same and if the maintainer of the script has 
built it in. 
My conclusion from my experiments as maintainer of one of the outdated
scripts :-) is simply that it is not possible to handle all possibilitys in one hand 
and my experience is also that not much users are willing to help to make the 
scripts better.
This is why i made the decision to put together a monolithic package which includes
a known distro with a well known and stable vdr including the needed packages 
for mp3, (s)vcd and dvd. Not less and not more. VDR 1.1.20 is possible and works 
really stable on my patched testsystem.
You are invited to try and to expand this system if you like. :-)
If so, send me please a PM.
 


> 
> Gruss
> 
> Stephan
Greetings,

Stephan

P.S. I'm not trying to offend you. I know the big gap between Pro and Newbee
but i don't have a universal solution for this. I'm really happy that klaus is doing
it now the modular way so that he can focus his force on the core of vdr.
I think this is the main reason i'm against the monolithic way. :-D


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